Raptor Computing Systems Community Forums (BETA)
Raptor Computing Systems Hardware => Blackbird => Topic started by: eagle on December 22, 2019, 03:50:17 am
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I whould like to buy your system to have a 100% open pc for security and privacy reason, i’m an average user i just know how to install linux on a pc and use it, no more no less, so there are things that stop me to buy it and i whould like to know if are you working on it.
I hope you could reply to my numerous questions
Hardware/firmware problems that stop me to buy it
_Updating the firmware is something i do not even understand, it’s just out of my capabilities. When will be possible to update it from “bios like x86” or from OS with an easy tool where i can download the firmware files and this tool will flash it just with a click or a “sudo fwupdate.py firmwarefile.bin”
_I’ve heard it take minutes to cold boot, is it true? I usually power on and off so i hope you will make the cold boot faster like x86 are
_Afaik the NIC firmware it was reversed engenereed but it still ship with the closed source version, do you know when the open firmware will be implemented by default on your systems?
Software problems/questions
_Do debian graphical installer work ootb? I’ve heard it has issues
_I know firefox JIT is a working progress, there are other incompatibilities should i be aware of? Reading this https://www.talospace.com/2019/12/firefox-71-on-power.html seems some addon wont work till JIT is complete there are any news on JIT someone else are gonna work on it to help Cameron Kaiser?
_ Reading https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Troubleshooting/GPU#Display_stuck_at_default_low_resolution_with_AST_HDMI_GPU
Is this solution still required on debian stable? If not which kernel version will fix it?
_I know disable glamor is needed to make the video work correctly, it will be fixed on debian bullseye or in “Blackbird 2” hardware?
_Should be really nice to have on debian.org a ppc64le live cd, did you talked with them for make it happen or do you will make it available on your website?
“Blackbird 2” questions/nice to have
_As i wrote i’m interested to run open stuff only, so i will not use a discrete gpu, but i will use the AST included with mobo, but should be nice to have “more power” on the graphical side just to avoid the cpu to compute what usually do a gpu, but just for simple task as desktop enviroment accelleration and watching videos considering those are light tasks for a gpu probably a kind of 3d framebuffer could handle it freeing the cpu to process it because for the cpu are intensive tasks, do the ast2600 will help on that? If not are you aware on other solution for this kind of “weak” 3d accelleration? I think 90% of user will be just happy to this kind of acceleration without the need of proprietary gpu
What about european reseller? One year ago i’ve read on twitter you were in touch with vikings but since then no other news on this matter, could you say something? Do european have some chance to buy your components within the eu?
Hoping you could answer to all my questions, thanks for reading, and a special thanks to raptor to make open pc true and all the community that work on related software project
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Could someone ping a guy from raptor to have some answers please?
Thanks
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So, as I understand it we've answered some of these questions before, but probably would be a good idea to get the answers in a more public space. :)
Firmware updates are a known hassle. We're working with IBM on a better update mechanism, but it's not our top priority at the moment.
Boot time is also something we try to improve, in conjunction with IBM and the overall community. Progress is slowly being made there; it's all software/firmware, so you don't have to worry about any hardware changes required to improve boot speed.
We're waiting on the Broadcom firmware still; my understanding is there's one bit of setup that isn't fully understood yet, but once that's figured out we can switch over
Graphical installers are available and work. Fedora just enabled workstation builds, see https://www.talospace.com/2020/01/fedora-workstation-live-isos-up-and.html for info. Adelie has a workstation installer too: https://www.adelielinux.org/
Firefox is really the largest project to have a somewhat embarrassing lack of full support (specifically, the JIT). Google has also continually refused to merge our POWER patches, though due to Chromium's popularity the POWER support has been reliably maintained anyway out of tree and in Ungoogled form as well, see https://github.com/leo-lb/ungoogled-chromium (and huge thanks to the maintainer for doing this!)
Yes, the HDMI fix is still required. We don't have a kernel patch yet.
Regarding Glamor, that's a software problem. There is no "Blackbird 2" planned for POWER9, and POWER10 is still a significant distance away.
So far as I know Vikings will be launching our products soon-ish. I don't have exact timing, you could always write them and ask. ;)
Does this answer your questions?
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Thank You very much for your reply, it's really appreciated
About firmware update also if is not on your top priority at the moment there is any chance to be "fixed" this year or will be something like "maybe in 5 years"?
As debian user i'm interested to know if debian grapgical installer work ootb and if you are talking with debian devs to have a ppc64le live iso too as x86 and arm, or if you will provide it on your website
For glamour it's someone care about to upstream the solution? Seem an easy fix to apply and will make the life easier for people like me
Same question for the hdmi kernel patch, someone is working on it?
Thanks again for your reply, i understand some "issue" i have are not a problem for expert people like you, but as "normal" user i whould like to have the same chance to use your system as tech savy people have right now, having the same experience/difficulty we have on x86, i hope all the "problems" i wrote will be fixed/addressed when blackbird2/power10 will be released, so i will be more confortable and relaxed to buy and be sure to use it without problems
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There is no "Blackbird 2" planned for POWER9
The Blackbird™ Secure Desktop (https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/BK1SD1/intro.html) has a Blackbird™ II uATX mainboard. Version II of the mainboard is only available in that bundle.
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I think it's only called Blackbird II, because of the different cooling system.
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Interesting. Do you have a link to information about the cooling of mainboard components?
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I don't have that system by my own, but you could see it on the picture: Phoronix (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=spec-power9-4core&num=1)
I would call it "enhanced cooling system" instead of different.
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There is no "Blackbird 2" planned for POWER9
The Blackbird™ Secure Desktop (https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/BK1SD1/intro.html) has a Blackbird™ II uATX mainboard. Version II of the mainboard is only available in that bundle.
Sorry to disappoint you all, but that was in fact a copypasta problem. Somehow part of the copy for Talos II ended up in there without being properly scrubbed of the spurious "II". It should now be fixed. :-[
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Thank You very much for your reply, it's really appreciated
About firmware update also if is not on your top priority at the moment there is any chance to be "fixed" this year or will be something like "maybe in 5 years"?
As debian user i'm interested to know if debian grapgical installer work ootb and if you are talking with debian devs to have a ppc64le live iso too as x86 and arm, or if you will provide it on your website
For glamour it's someone care about to upstream the solution? Seem an easy fix to apply and will make the life easier for people like me
Same question for the hdmi kernel patch, someone is working on it?
Thanks again for your reply, i understand some "issue" i have are not a problem for expert people like you, but as "normal" user i whould like to have the same chance to use your system as tech savy people have right now, having the same experience/difficulty we have on x86, i hope all the "problems" i wrote will be fixed/addressed when blackbird2/power10 will be released, so i will be more confortable and relaxed to buy and be sure to use it without problems
Any reply about this questions?
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You don't need to update the Firmware. If you want to update, it's pretty easy. Even as a non-programmer.
What is the problem with the installer of Debian? I installed several distributions. Almost all worked without a problem. Debain, too.
https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Operating_System_Compatibility_List
About glamour etc.: You only have to create a file and C&P a few chars. That's it.
In the meantime, it would be good to collect some Linux experience before buying a BB.
Linux is different from Windows or Mac. You cannot install Linux and expect a MacOS. Linux will remain Linux.
If you are looking for support, IRC is very helpful. There are mostly developers there, but everyone is very helpful.
But what is really basic is the will to educate yourself and the ability to use Google search properly.
If this will is not brought along, then it will be very difficult. Because as I said, Linux will never become MacOS.
I had MacOS before my BB and the beginning was really hard.
But maybe you're right and some things are changed in two years. I have no objection ;)
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_Do debian graphical installer work ootb? I’ve heard it has issues
The graphical installer is not available on the ppc64le build, in my experience. The good news is that the basic installer (uses whiptail to simulate a "GUI", I believe) is nearly identical to navigate, just use your Tab key instead of a mouse cursor.
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_Do debian graphical installer work ootb? I’ve heard it has issues
Install via a Fedora Server 31 DVD burned from the ISO file.
Fedora has a nice graphical installer (with mouse support ;-) and works very stable on my Blackbird: https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/User:FlyingBlackbird
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You don't need to update the Firmware. If you want to update, it's pretty easy. Even as a non-programmer.
What is the problem with the installer of Debian? I installed several distributions. Almost all worked without a problem. Debain, too.
https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Operating_System_Compatibility_List
About glamour etc.: You only have to create a file and C&P a few chars. That's it.
In the meantime, it would be good to collect some Linux experience before buying a BB.
Linux is different from Windows or Mac. You cannot install Linux and expect a MacOS. Linux will remain Linux.
If you are looking for support, IRC is very helpful. There are mostly developers there, but everyone is very helpful.
But what is really basic is the will to educate yourself and the ability to use Google search properly.
If this will is not brought along, then it will be very difficult. Because as I said, Linux will never become MacOS.
I had MacOS before my BB and the beginning was really hard.
But maybe you're right and some things are changed in two years. I have no objection ;)
Thanks for your reply
Updating firmware is important to keep up to date the system for security issue.
Could you please explain the easy way to update the firmware? Because what i've read in the wiki do not sound really user friendly
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Yes. It's written on the Wiki. If you're looking for a one-click solution. There isn't one.
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P. S. Vikings is already a RCS reseller :)
We are an official reseller of RCS products - you can get all RCS products from us on request.
Soon the products will also be available directly from our shop at store.vikings.net.
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Where did you see that? I don't see that on their web page or their Tw*tt*r feed.
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I asked them via mail. This was the answer from today.
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I asked them via mail. This was the answer from today.
Great news! Do you have a URL of their home page for us?
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Sorry :)
Vikings (https://www.vikings.net)
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One-Click-Solution (https://twitter.com/RaptorCompSys/status/1229384432001454080?s=20)
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Hi,
I'm a newbee with PowerPC. I had asked Raptor's support if the Blackbird comes with OS (Debian) preinstalled with the graphical interface. They answered yes.
When I read this thread I got confused. If it comes with Debian preinstalled why would I (I'm a less technical user) bother to install another OS? Although I've done it on x86 directly on the hardware and also as VMs I'd prefer to start with a "working machine" out-of-the-box.
So, when I get the Blackbird, will I be able to use it (as a regular user - email/browser) out of the box? or Will I have to learn how to install the OS on this system?
Thank you all for your patience and attention,
Claudio
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Hi,
I'm a newbee with PowerPC. I had asked Raptor's support if the Blackbird comes with OS (Debian) preinstalled with the graphical interface. They answered yes.
When I read this thread I got confused. If it comes with Debian preinstalled why would I (I'm a less technical user) bother to install another OS? Although I've done it on x86 directly on the hardware and also as VMs I'd prefer to start with a "working machine" out-of-the-box.
So, when I get the Blackbird, will I be able to use it (as a regular user - email/browser) out of the box? or Will I have to learn how to install the OS on this system?
Thank you all for your patience and attention,
Claudio
Many people would choose to install their own OS because they either have a favorite OS they want to use instead of the preinstalled one, or they don't trust the preinstalled version for whatever reason (e.g. tampering in transit, etc.). Since one of the main reasons for people to choose an OpenPOWER system is the fact that they have full control over the hardware, it isn't too surprising that the vast majority of our users exercise that control by loading their own OS and in some cases even compiling and reloading the firmware. It's not something you have to do, just something that a lot of people choose to do.
The preinstalled OS is perfectly usable for normal tasks. It is a Debian install with TDE, you could choose a different desktop such as KDE, XFCE, or Gnome if you wanted (apt-get works out of the box).
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So, when I get the Blackbird, will I be able to use it (as a regular user - email/browser) out of the box? or Will I have to learn how to install the OS on this system?
Only if you buy the secure desktop. But you should be familiar with Linux in any case.
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P. S. Vikings is already a RCS reseller :)
Starting this month, Vikings sells Talos II, they announced on 4 November:
https://twitter.com/vikingslibre/status/1324014994502144001 (https://twitter.com/vikingslibre/status/1324014994502144001)
and they already prepared a section in their store:
https://store.vikings.net/openpower (https://store.vikings.net/openpower)