Raptor Computing Systems Community Forums (BETA)

Third Party Hardware => Legacy POWER Hardware => Topic started by: ClassicHasClass on December 08, 2019, 04:13:34 pm

Title: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on December 08, 2019, 04:13:34 pm
Since Raptor is offering this subforum, I'm wondering what old Power-based stuff people have hanging around. I'm sure a fair number of folks have Power Macs, and the number of Power Macs, PowerBooks, etc. in this house is too many to enumerate exactly, but what other old school Power hardware do you have?

IBM hardware:
2-way SMT-2 POWER6 (Type 8203-E4A), which runs Floodgap
IBM ThinkPad 860
IBM ThinkPad "800" Type 6020 (SCSI fuse got opened by a bad SCSI2SD; at some point imma repair this)

Be hardware:
BeBox dual 133MHz 603

Microsoft hardware:
Xbox 360 (one with mod chip, one without)

You can see most of these at http://www.floodgap.com/etc/machines.html and http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/riscy/ . What's lurking in your machine room?
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: q66 on December 08, 2019, 05:31:33 pm
Not a lot of it, actually. Just a Power Mac G5 dual-core (2005, PCIe, DDR2) which I use to test Void on BE, and a PowerBook G4 15" (2004), otherwise it's all new stuff (a couple POWER8 servers, my Blackbird daily driver desktop, Talos 2 Lite which is mainly a Void buildserver). I intend to expand this as opportunities arise, as there's never enough testing hardware.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MPC7500 on December 08, 2019, 06:41:45 pm
I only have ordinary Apple hardware.

PowerMac B&W G3 300MHz (1999)
PowerBook FireWire G3 400MHz (2000)
Cube G4 450MHz (2000)
PowerMac Quicksilver G4 733MHz (2001)
PowerBook G4 12" 1.5GHz (2005)

The Pismo has a faulty hard drive as it seems and the Quicksilver has a faulty PSU.
On both PowerBooks I will install VoidLinux. Shouldn't be a problem for both.
The only Macs that are problematic are eMacs and iMacs. Both have a CRT without EDID support.

I also have had a PowerMac Quad G5 (Late 2005, PCIe) and now I have a Blackbird.

@ClassicHasClass: Which OS are you running on the BeBox? BeOS 5 (https://winworldpc.com/product/beos/5)?
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on December 09, 2019, 12:58:40 am
Yes, BeOS 5.

If we're going to list Power Mac/Apple stuff, too, I'll just list the exceptional items and/or the items I use frequently:

Apple Network Server 500 (and 700, and a non-working prototype)
Quad G5
MDD G4 (with a dual 1.8GHz 7447A Sonnet upgrade)
PowerBook G4 DLSD
Mac mini G4/1.5
iBook G4/1.33
iMac G4/1.25
TiBook G4 867MHz
Power Mac 7300 (with an 800MHz 7455 Sonnet upgrade)
iMac G3 (with a 600MHz G3 Sonnet upgrade)
Twentieth Anniversary Mac (with a 500MHz G3 Sonnet upgrade)
PowerBook 1400 (with a 466MHz G3 Sonnet upgrade)
Sawtooth G4/450

Except for the ANS, which runs AIX, and the mini, which runs NetBSD, these machines all run MacOS 9 or Mac OS X (the DLSD runs 10.5 and everything else runs 10.4).
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: xilinder on December 09, 2019, 07:01:35 am
It's not POWER, but I have and use a A-EON X1000 (PA6T 1682M) running Fienix Linux and Amiga OS4.

At this time I'm running the 5.4 kernel that I build on my Talos 2 with Deb 10.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MPC7500 on December 09, 2019, 08:36:58 am
Maybe you could do some Phoronix Test Suite benchmarks with the X1000? (Sorry, confused it with the X5000).

On OpenBenchmarking.org I couldn't find any results, but from a T2080RDB from NXP 8)

Yes, BeOS 5.

BeOS was a great multimedia OS, I guess. I never saw it IRL.
Ah, and I have a Playstation 3, no Xbox.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MauryG5 on December 09, 2019, 05:07:04 pm
I have a second-hand IMac G5 in 2007, unfortunately recently it failed and I can't use it anymore and put it aside. The Amiga x 1000 are based on Pa-semi which was then bought by Apple and did not produce more Power derivative processors but what is mounted on the X1000 is however a Power derivative. The most recent X 5000 has the Freescale P5020 or P 5040 but without Altivec and they are based on Power 8 if I remember correctly ...
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: madscientist159 on December 09, 2019, 05:34:04 pm
The most recent X 5000 has the Freescale P5020 or P 5040 but without Altivec and they are based on Power 8 if I remember correctly ...

POWER7, actually.  They implement Power ISA v2.06 (https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Power_ISA (https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Power_ISA)) and are BE only.

Confusingly the actual product page (https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/power-architecture/qoriq-communication-processors/p-series/qoriq-p5020-and-p5010-64-bit-dual-and-single-core-communications-processors:P5020 (https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/power-architecture/qoriq-communication-processors/p-series/qoriq-p5020-and-p5010-64-bit-dual-and-single-core-communications-processors:P5020)) refers to a "P5 platform" which I suspect is not POWER5, but I have no idea offhand what it is.  I do know the 4 core and up chips have a mystery management core of some sort, but then again with pre-OpenPOWER stuff the chips weren't exactly open source firmware across the board regardless of vendor.

Also, welcome to all here on this subforum!  I don't have any pre-OpenPOWER ppc[64] hardware but find the history fascinating regardless.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: nglevin on December 09, 2019, 09:06:56 pm
Count me in the "old Apple stuff" camp.


An aluminum PowerBook G4 sometimes acts as a tinkering machine.

A 1.33 GHz iBook G4 is seeing active usage by my significant other, as a "portable" laptop that's less of a luggable than her ThinkPad P50.

Both run 10.5 Server quite well.


Older bits (like a B&W) are currently out of commission and need servicing.

I'd love to have a PReP ThinkPad, but that's well out of my budget for new old things!
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: Raion on December 09, 2019, 10:50:47 pm
I divested my apple stuff long ago, but I still have some older stuff that isn't Apple:

I picked up a Genesi EFIKA 5200B for free from a guy in MD—he was selling off his collection of amiga stuff and I helped him out with getting the best prices.

I also jointly own an AmigaOne X5000 with a friend of mine—though I told him recently he can buy me out as my one attempt to run any BSD on it failed. I lent him the money for partial ownership, but he only wants to really do AmigaOS4 with it which interests me not.

Owned up until recently a Sam460ex by Acube—sold it to pay bills when I quit my job.

Out of all of them, the Sam460ex honestly was probably my favorite. I'm gonna probably give away the Efika, since it's a slow little piece of kit that isn't even mainlined on anything but MorphOS last I checked, and I'm getting out of 32-bit hardware other than M68k stuff.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on December 10, 2019, 10:49:49 pm
The most recent X 5000 has the Freescale P5020 or P 5040 but without Altivec and they are based on Power 8 if I remember correctly ...

POWER7, actually.  They implement Power ISA v2.06 (https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Power_ISA (https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Power_ISA)) and are BE only.

Not to be a (terrible) pedant, but while they do indeed implement (at least most of) the later ISA, the QorIQ e5500 microarchitecture doesn't have much in common with POWER7's. It's essentially a 64-bit e500 without the SPE crap and an FPU borrowed from the e600, itself an evolution of the 744x G4. The lack of AltiVec/VMX is a terrible omission, however, and limits its utility for general purpose computing. It's really an embedded part and meant for that application, and I have said in other places how much of a disservice I think running such CPUs in pricey desktops is to the Amiga community.

Quote
Confusingly the actual product page (https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/power-architecture/qoriq-communication-processors/p-series/qoriq-p5020-and-p5010-64-bit-dual-and-single-core-communications-processors:P5020 (https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/power-architecture/qoriq-communication-processors/p-series/qoriq-p5020-and-p5010-64-bit-dual-and-single-core-communications-processors:P5020)) refers to a "P5 platform" which I suspect is not POWER5, but I have no idea offhand what it is.  I do know the 4 core and up chips have a mystery management core of some sort, but then again with pre-OpenPOWER stuff the chips weren't exactly open source firmware across the board regardless of vendor.

P5 just means the Freescale-internal generation; it is not related in any way to IBM POWER generations.

Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: madscientist159 on December 11, 2019, 12:00:29 am
Not to be a (terrible) pedant, but while they do indeed implement (at least most of) the later ISA, the QorIQ e5500 microarchitecture doesn't have much in common with POWER7's. It's essentially a 64-bit e500 without the SPE crap and an FPU borrowed from the e600, itself an evolution of the 744x G4. The lack of AltiVec/VMX is a terrible omission, however, and limits its utility for general purpose computing. It's really an embedded part and meant for that application, and I have said in other places how much of a disservice I think running such CPUs in pricey desktops is to the Amiga community.
Quote

No problem -- thanks for the pedantry here, all I really know about the e5000 parts is that we disqualified them really early on for performance and concerns over the integrated "mystery meat" security core. 8)
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: madscientist159 on December 11, 2019, 12:02:25 am
Not to be a (terrible) pedant, but while they do indeed implement (at least most of) the later ISA, the QorIQ e5500 microarchitecture doesn't have much in common with POWER7's. It's essentially a 64-bit e500 without the SPE crap and an FPU borrowed from the e600, itself an evolution of the 744x G4. The lack of AltiVec/VMX is a terrible omission, however, and limits its utility for general purpose computing. It's really an embedded part and meant for that application, and I have said in other places how much of a disservice I think running such CPUs in pricey desktops is to the Amiga community.

No problem -- thanks for the pedantry here, all I really know about the e5000 parts is that we disqualified them really early on for performance and concerns over the integrated "mystery meat" security core. 8)
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MauryG5 on December 14, 2019, 04:25:25 pm
Yes Tim in fact I don't remember the derivation well, I had read a document a long time ago but I don't remember the derivation well.  In fact, I also never liked the lack of altivec on Freescale 5500 cores, altivec was implemented on the 6500 cores, but there was no system based on these cores and now that I remember better they were the e6500 cores that were based on  Power 8. At the time I was interested in the x 5000, when I saw that it was already back as hardware before it even went out and it was too expensive I changed my mind. I'm sorry I can't use Amiga OS 4 on Power 9, there must be  something that only recognizes X5000 hardware from what I know ... Amiga was not open but in my opinion today there is no comparable computer operating system level ... it was unique!  I always cry his death ...!
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: Raion on December 18, 2019, 06:51:27 pm

Not to be a (terrible) pedant, but while they do indeed implement (at least most of) the later ISA, the QorIQ e5500 microarchitecture doesn't have much in common with POWER7's. It's essentially a 64-bit e500 without the SPE crap and an FPU borrowed from the e600, itself an evolution of the 744x G4. The lack of AltiVec/VMX is a terrible omission, however, and limits its utility for general purpose computing. It's really an embedded part and meant for that application, and I have said in other places how much of a disservice I think running such CPUs in pricey desktops is to the Amiga community.


Indeed, I can't agree more. But from everything the amiga community has said; they'd rather pay for a pricy FPGA chip that's more of a novelty than a POWER9 machine like the Talos/Blackbird machines.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MauryG5 on December 19, 2019, 07:08:23 am
I honestly don't know this FPGA hardware but if it's based on Intel then those who say it don't understand anything about hardware, that's for sure ... I wish I could use Amiga os 4 on Power but unfortunately from what I understand I can't unfortunately. ..😣
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: THEkitchenSINK on January 14, 2020, 05:07:59 pm
Well I have a g5 quad I've been using to attempt porting some Linux DEs over to ppc and I have my cell/be powerXcell 8i accelerator from fixstars
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: mparnaudeau on January 27, 2020, 10:03:33 am
Hi, this is my first message on this forum!

I am a PPC user and developer for a long time, on Linux and AmigaOS. I love the architecture and own several PPC machines: MacMini, iMac G5, X1000 and other Amiga machines, and various old development boards.
I plan to buy a BlackBird ... on which I would like to port and optimize some apps.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MPC7500 on January 27, 2020, 10:51:19 am
Just out of curiosity, do you also have a MPC86xx-RDB or T4240-RDB from Freescale? If so, maybe you can do some benchmarks with the Phoronix Test Suite? :)
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: mparnaudeau on January 28, 2020, 04:45:07 am
Just out of curiosity, do you also have a MPC86xx-RDB or T4240-RDB from Freescale? If so, maybe you can do some benchmarks with the Phoronix Test Suite? :)

Unfortunately, no, I don't. T4240-RDB would be nice. If I had the opportunity (time) to contribute to the PPC laptop project, I would have been open to get one but that's not the case. Maybe if I find other projects related to this board ...
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on January 28, 2020, 06:39:48 pm
Welcome!
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ernsteiswuerfel on January 30, 2020, 03:05:40 pm
Apart from the Talos II I also got a G5 11,2, a G4 3,6 DP and a PowerBook G4 5,8. Which I mostly run with MorphOS. Which the Talos is unfortunately lacking. ;)
Linux of choice on my PPC gear is Gentoo, but Void & Adelie do also run pretty well.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on January 30, 2020, 11:52:11 pm
Welcome as well :)
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MauryG5 on February 26, 2020, 04:46:53 pm
Guys, the great R.J Mical really liked the photos of my Power system and he wants me to help him make a computer think ahhaahahhah! He manages to answer a little but obviously he says that he is very busy and he is there for someone like him. I told him that it is enough for me that sometimes we can exchange two words because it makes me very happy and I am honored to be his friend!  ;D
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: jirka on April 23, 2020, 12:31:32 pm
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on April 24, 2020, 12:01:57 am
Welcome, jirka! Nice to see you here.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: bw42 on June 24, 2020, 11:40:50 pm
I have a few old PowerMacs:

iBook G3
G4 Cube
iMac G4
2 iBook G4s
PowerMac G5

Plus a couple non-Apple PowerPC systems.
IBM Intellistation 185
several Aerohive access points running embedded PowerPC SoC

and of course my newest toy, Blackbird with 8-core Power9.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on June 24, 2020, 11:50:11 pm
Well, if we're counting router SoCs, Floodgap's border router is PowerPC-based too (it's essentially a 603 core but no MMU). Which Aerohive and what SoC?

I like the Intellistations. If I had any more room under the desk and it wasn't a pandemic, I might look around for one.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: bw42 on June 25, 2020, 12:33:30 am
I got a couple Aerohive BR-100 and 4 AP-230.
I'm not sure the specific SoC they run.

I just remember when I first set them up at a previous employer they were running PowerPC and a custom Linux distro.

When they replaced the system I asked the IT manager there if I could take a few to play with instead of them getting trashed.
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: Logout on June 25, 2020, 01:13:00 am
Hello everyone, just registered here. While waiting for my 8C/32T Blackbird to arive, I tinker with any of these:  PowerMacintosh 7100, PowerMacintosh 7300, PowerMacintosh 7600, PowerMacintosh 9600, iMac G3 (original), iMac G3 (slot-load), PowerMac G4, PowerMac G5, Xserve G5, PowerBook G3 (Pismo), iBook G4 12",  PowerBook G4 12", PowerBook G4 15", 3x MacMini G4, IntelliStation POWER 185, RouterBoard RB600 (with the last OpenBSD supporting this board, used as a computer through old VT serial terminal) and some desk-side POWER4 based IBM server with faulty power circuits waiting to be repaired one day. I also still have Kanga, but it has faulty trackpad and malfunctioning L2 cache, so it's going to be swaped for some other RISC machine with other czech Mac collector.

Glad to be here.

Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: MauryG5 on June 25, 2020, 04:02:06 pm
Welcome and congratulations on the many Power-based machines!
Title: Re: Old stuff survey
Post by: ClassicHasClass on June 27, 2020, 11:08:09 am
Martin's here! Now the party can start!